A Nice Piece on Amy Grant

I made a new friend today - Matt Johnson of Doxologist and Mars Hill Seattle.  So, I'm checking out his blog and came across a great post called Leadership Lessons from Amy Grant.  It was great to read since I have followed Amy since I was a teenager.

I think Amy and I are about the same age and she was becoming famous in the CCM scene when I became a Christian, and basically, if you wanted Christian music it was her or Sandy Patti or the Imperials (come on folks, some of you have to remember those days).  In my circles they were somewhat safe, you know, we didn't want to go off the deep end and listen to people like Larry Norman and Steve Taylor who were on the edge, if not over the cliff, of compromise.  But I liked Amy's music and yes, she was pretty easy on the eyes too.

It's been interesting to follow her career - first she was the darling of Christian music then she became persona non grata when she "went secular."  I can remember her doing a concert in Jacksonville sometime in the early 80's when we all knew she was flirting with the world and this was concerned when she came out for her second set in these tight red leather pants.  We were all scandalized, of course I wasn't so scandalized that it kept me from staring at her.  It was pretty soon after that she "went secular" and for the most part I stopped listening to her. 

It was also during that time when I was in my Gothardite phase and found out that rock music was evil, so that was another reason I had to stop listening to her and listen only to the pure and spotless Sandy Patti - and of course you could just forget about the Imperials, and Larry Norman, well we just won't talk about him.

But I always kinda liked Amy and was only half-hearted in my disapproval of her.  It was supposed to be bad that she "went secular," but to me it seemed like kind of a good thing.  But then came the divorce and I just figured that this was another example of a Christian seduced by the world.

I've come along way since those days and I'm pretty ashamed of my reactions to her and others, and the days of extreme separation from the world and looking at secular music as evil in and of itself seem like a bad dream.  Also, the judgmentalism I had about her divorce and things like that are things I am ashamed of - I'd like to say I was a product of my fundamentalist environment, but I was more contributor than product.

But as you read the piece in Doxologist you will see that Tim Smith, another worship pastor at Mars Hill met her and he says this about her:

What was so refreshing about her was that she was so authentic and real. It was realness in a Johnny Cash, King Solomon ala Ecclesiasties kind of way.  In effect she said, “Look, I’ve made a lot of mistakes and messed up a lot of things and, when it’s all done, Jesus is still the only thing real to me and his word is all I can depend on.”  It was refreshing and unexpected that Amy Grant would end up talking more about the importance of scripture than almost any other speaker at the conference.

It occurs to me that maybe Amy is the kind of person that ought to be our role model.  I mean let's face it, she may have made mistakes but she's never done anything as bad as say David, or Solomon, or Paul, or any number of bible heroes.

And I say that in a bit of a joshing way - I don't think we ought to judge people by some kind of moralistic litmus test.  In the bible the heroes are the battered and bruised who need Jesus, not the spotless and pure. 

I do hope Amy continues to do well and I do hope she stays secular and I do hope that, even if you don't like her music, that she can be seen as an example of how Christians can be involved in the world around us.

Comments

[Patricia]

Amen!

[Steve Sensenig]

I pretty much could have written this. My experiences with Amy are almost identical to yours. How funny.

I went to see her in concert in the late 80's (not exactly sure which year, but maybe about '87 or '88?) because I wanted to confirm all the suspicions I had heard about how carnal she was in concert.

What ended up happening was I sat there with tears in my eyes feeling horrible about judging her as she led the audience in singing song after song of praise to our God.

Her hymns projects in recent years have also been a blessing.

Great thoughts, David. Nice to see people coming alongside her (in a manner of speaking) and being a Barnabas to her Paul.

[Russ N.]

Yes, music was limited back in the day - I do think you forgot Michael W. Smith and Petra. I personally didn't care for Amy Grant's music - at any point in her career.

Larry Norman and Steve Taylor very over the edge for their time. Now, not so much...maybe they were ahead of their time? I've been goin' old school lately with Steve Taylor, Petra, and a couple others....but it's getting harder and harder to find cassette tape players for some of my stuff.

Very much agree that musicians need to be looked at as every-day people in need of the grace of God just as everyone is. Just like pastors. Or missionaries.

[David Cho]

Wow, great post, David.

Gothard? I have not heard that name since I went to his conference 20 years ago in Long Beach. Wow, what a flashback.

Your Odyssey with Amy pretty much mirrors mine, but let me add that it was wrong for us in the first place to idolize her and place her on the pedestal while creating our own parallel world with our own music and our own celebrities. Amy was our Britney Spears before Britney Spears was Britney Spears.

When Amy disappointed a lot of people by going secular which was followed by the divorce, I too joined the lynch mob as you did.

But looking back, we did it to ourselves and Amy was just a minor catalyst. I hope that we rethink this whole Evangelical subculture which we have created for us to indulge iv and see it for what it is - a cheesy imitation of the world with "Christian" twists, not the Body of Christ.

[David Wayne]

So, Steve, Russ and David - does anyone want to admit that they were at least a tad disappointed when she married Gary Chapman - you know, as if any of us had a chance.

Steve - wow! I'm glad you were brought to tears, I was probably in my "arms length" at minimum, or maybe my judgmental stage at that point.

David - agreed about the whole subculture thing - we should have rejoiced for her that she was going with a major label.

[Steve Sensenig]

I wasn't disappointed when she married Gary Chapman. I am a slight bit younger, I guess, so I didn't know any better at the time.

Now, when she got hooked up with Vince Gill.....that's a whole different story!! ;) I was single at that time.

I do still wish I could play keyboards in her band, though! hehe

[Christian]

Well said. Thanks...

[David Cho]

By the time I became aware of her in the mid 80's, she was married then. But she was still in my fantasy as she was in every Evangelical young man's of my generation.

Yes, I agree with you about her going with a major label.

This parallels Bob Dylan's departure from the folk scene around 66 which I am now learning about from mostly watching No Direction Home (any Dylan fans?). The youth counterculture movement pegged him down as the "voice of the generation" just as Amy was the face of our Evangelical subculture. Hey, when you become a Christian, you don't have to give up pretty girls. Look we've got Amy who's pretty and can sing.

Dylan stopped writing and singing topical political protest songs to the dismay of the hippies and went onto rock, just as Amy went "secular."

I think they were both uncomfortable with people trying to make them into spiritual/social iconic figures and thus becoming greater than life.

Interestingly enough, in the early 80's Dylan became a born again Christian, and wrote and sang gospel songs. It lasted 3 albums before he reverted back to secular music.

[Chilli]

Here here [clap clap clap]. Couldn't have said it better myself!

Speaking of Michael W. Smith, I was totally put off him when he performed at a YFC youth conference in Washington DC in 1985 (I think). He was clearly loving the adulation from the many many screaming girls. It was shocking!

[Brian]

I remember "sneaking" and listening to Amy Grant in the mid-80s - instrumental "worship" music was verboten in the Church of Christ I grew up in. When she went secular I though "cool, now it'll be ok to listen to her albums".

Looking back, I can only agree with everyone about putting Amy and others in a special category that was somehow different than us "everyday" Christians. I don't think we've really learned our lesson yet.

David - Glad that you got out of Gothardism. You would have missed all the good music. :)

[Julie]

As a women myself going thru life struggles and trials, Amy and her music has helped me out through every step of the way. I have never judged her for the divorce or the "Scandolous" relationship she had w/Vince. I am a member of her fan club and have met her several times backstage. Even went to TX last April for the taping of her "Live" CD DVD....It was a memory that I will never forget. She is a wonderful role model to my 2 daughters who love her music as much as I do. When she talks to you, it is as if you are the only person in the room and she enjoys hearing her fans talk to her. I think that for what the music industry has done to her as well as the Christian stations...she has come out on top. I will continue to listen to her as long as I can hear her and then tell my kids to "Turn it up!"

[Jon Swerens]

I must also be about the same age. I remember as a teenager going to the "Straight Ahead" concert in Pittsburgh, when she was touring with a not-yet-cool-looking Michael W. Smith.

So thanks for the good post, David, and the memories. Except now I have "Heed the Call" stuck in my brain.

[Ron Nelson]

Yep...count me in with the rest of you who grew up on early 80s CCM. Although I was a bit of a rebel -

Steve Taylor
Larry Norman
The 77s
Adam Again (late 80s)
The Choir

Amy Grant and Michael W. Smith weren't cool, but Amy was hot. Even in my rebellion though, I was somewhat scandalized at her going all sexy and secular.

[RAP]

Remember. David was repentant. Sin is not a light thing... it is definitely not a mistake. Christians who know better need to be reproved. This is not judgment. We see the face of American Christianity in the life of Mrs. Grant. We see no discipline and lack of zeal for righteousness. I think believers do her a disservice if we simply let her sin slide without her knowing that it is not apporved by the Church or her God and Savior. Yes... be redemptive and restorative in discipline. But not until there is true repentance. I tell you. My grandfather has been married 50+ years to the same woman. He is my roll model. I pray that Mrs. Grant will be repentant of her adultery and divorce and seek Jesus completely. If she has, then praise God... if not, I wonder if she is truly saved. Strong words? Absolutely. We need to be real and we need to stand firm in the Lord. We need to be tempered with mercy, but without wavering on sin. Amen.

[BikerDad]

I never had any problem with her "going secular", but her divorce and continuing unrepentant adultery mean that she is still in her sin. Don't take my word for it, take Christ's. While we can learn from those who are still in their sin, it is best to take great care in deciding what lessons to learn...

[David]

I think I read somewhere that Amy grew up in a church that did not allow instruments in worship. Maybe someday she will write a autobiography. I mean who knows what theology good and bad she has grown into and out of also. My conversion occured in 1978. I've been a christian all these years and seen alot of interesting changes personally and in the church also. Bottom line is Amy is born again and not ashamed to use those words. She is real and has a personal relationship with Christ. It is experiental not just head knowledge.

[David]

I think I read somewhere that Amy grew up in a church that did not allow instruments in worship. Maybe someday she will write a autobiography. I mean who knows what theology good and bad she has grown into and out of also. My conversion occured in 1978. I've been a christian all these years and seen alot of interesting changes personally and in the church also. Bottom line is Amy is born again and not ashamed to use those words. She is real and has a personal relationship with Christ. It is experiental not just head knowledge.

[Milton Stanley]

I'm about the same age as you and Mrs. Gill, and I remember CCM in the early '80s, when I was a student at Tennessee Tech. Amy Grant's music was OK, but as far as CCM was concerned, I preferred Mark Heard, James Ward, and a brand new act from just down the road, Michael Card. Peace.

[Jack Brooks]

Has she ever repented of becoming Vince Gill's mistress?

[Julie]

For those of you who are "judging" Amy and Vince...were you there when they sinned? Are you personal friends of theirs? How do you know for certain that they were both still married when they decided to be together? Have you ever listened to her music since all of this and really listened to it w/open heart and mind? I didn't think so...don't cast stones...don't judge one another....let God be our Judge....And my only judge is God....As is Amy's and Vince.

I should have never come on this blog...I feel sorry for Amy...having to always deal w/this...she's moved on - apparently you have not.

[Mwalimu Daudi]

David Wayne says; I do hope Amy continues to do well and I do hope she stays secular and I do hope that, even if you don't like her music, that she can be seen as an example of how Christians can be involved in the world around us.

I hope that Amy Grant does well, but - an example of how Christians can become involved in the world? That one is a double-edged sword, to say the least. If anything, Amy's public life seems to serve as a kind of warning about what happens when you get seduced by the world. Samson may be an Old Testament hero, but there is a great deal about his personal life that we should be cautious about.

A confession: Long before I met my wife, I became involved with (and eventually lived with) a "Christian" woman. We did this without getting married. To make a long story short, our breakup was the most painful event in my life. The consequences of living in sin with her reverberate in my life even today. I have repented of my sin, and God has forgiven me. But there is no doubt that I would have been better off if I had not given in to sin in the first place.

I have not related this story in order to give myself moral standing to "cast the first stone", but to point out a simple fact: When the world tell us that adultery is not really such a big deal the world lies and lies dangerously. I have learned that the hard way. Forget "hellfire and damnation" - adultery has very real and very terrible consequences right here and now that the world will never admit to.

Pastor Wayne, please do not think that I am suggesting that you are making light of adultery. I simply feel compelled to warn people that behind adultery's beautiful smiling face is a very real skull - something the world would like for us to forget.

[Byron]

Pretty disappointing post, David. Quickly: I'm about 2 months older than Amy; cut my teeth listening to her; owned most all her stuff up through "Behind the Eyes"; consider "Age to Age" and "Lead Me On" to be two of the finest CCM albums ever made. Defended her when she went secular. Have always admired her authenticity and "realness". Met her personally a few years back; had a picture made with her; found her to be charming. BUT...

But, it's not "judgmentalism" to expect of Amy what we ought to expect of any Christian, particularly those who stand publicly and speak/sing of Jesus to others: heartfelt repentance where warranted; restoration in the spirit of Galatians 6:1; meaningful involvement in the kind of accountability structures that will help her in her spiritual journey; honesty with those millions to whom she would minister in her music. Frankly, "I've made a lot of mistakes and messed up a lot of things" may be true enough of her, as they are of all of us, but as a confession, it comes off distinctly Clintonesque.

This isn't to say that we all aren't terribly sinful (we are), that we don't all need grace tremendously (we do), that she's somehow not a Christian or beyond redemption (that'd be ridiculous to suggest). Frankly, I'd like nothing better than to be able to enjoy her music again, to consider her a "role model" for my daughter, etc. But right now, the lingering questions that need to be answered are many, not for the purpose of gratuitous "bashing", but for her own benefit and that of those to whom her music might minister. I don't care to know gory details in the least, but I'd like to just know the answers to a few questions prior to my endorsing her to others (and if indeed she's "authentic" and "real", she'd have little problem answering these):

- "Did you have clear Scriptural grounds for pursuing divorce from Gary Chapman, and did solid Biblical counselors concur with that assessment?"

- If not (and I make no assumption here one way or the other), "did you sincerely repent of your sin, make every attempt at restoration with Gary, and submit to a church willing to hold you accountable until such time as that church's leadership determined that you ought to resume your ministry?"

- If not, "will you even now be willing to enter into such a relationship with a local church in order for the purpose of restoration?"

There are some other questions along these lines that'd be appropriate, but we can't give Amy a "pass" because we like her music, or because she's so "authentic", or because she's well-known, or because __________. I believe that dealing with these kinds of issues would go a long way toward determining if she is as "real", possesses as "experiential" a relationship with Jesus, and is as worthy to serve as a "role model" as some of our commenters are willing to pronounce her to be.

And it is categorically NOT "judgmental" to call for such. Period. And to think such is evidence of how much "cheap grace" has taken root in contemporary American evangelicalism.

My prayer for Amy is that she would be able to sing and minister clearly for Jesus for the rest of her life, because frankly, I LIKE her music!

[Cheryl]

Amy's music played a huge role in, beginning and maintaining to this day, looking at the Bible for "His will" in my everyday life. Through studying the Bible, I believe God expects His people to just love one another and let Him do the judging. Amy claims to be a Christian and, yes, I believe Christians are to hold each other accountable because God's Word is what differentiates right from wrong. The purpose for holding others accountable is because our love for others should be so deep that we want others to go to heaven, too, and not lose out on eternal life with our heavenly Father. So many times, well-meaning people, including myself at times, want to come down hard on others. We are to pray for them and if possible go talk to them. Being a public figure, I felt Amy should have given more of an explanation. However, would that have made the situation better? Her concern at that time was for her children. Rumors have it that Gary committed adultery. Do we really need to know all the details? Maybe someday, they will give the details. But, for now, there are young children involved that needs to see mom and dad working together. Rumors have it that Gary is in rehab right now due to his drug/alcohol addiction. Pray, pray and pray for this family. Amy is my favorite singer/songwriter ever!!! She has a way of getting to the heart of the issue. I'm also from the Church of Christ (instrumental) and I choose to listen to her music until the day I breath my last breath because I like her music. No one sings "Thy Word" better than Amy Grant.

[Jack Brooks]

Julie, the standard of right and wrong is the Scripture, not feelings. Who cares what Amy sang last? Her heart? Character is revealed by moral actions, not by sentimental religious talk.

Amy's fans make excuses for her sin by claiming that we're not supposed to "judge" people, when in opposition to that Christ commands us to "judge with righteous judgment" (John 7:24). What you are really saying, Julie, is that the moral laws of the Bible should never be enforced. You're an enabler.

Have you ever heard of "discipline"? Amy's church (pastored by Scotty Smith) disciplined her and Gary. Paul criticized the Corinthian church for acting the way you say we should act (1 Corinthians 5:1-2, 6)At least Sandi Patti is on record as calling her adultery "adultery" and "sin". All that I'm aware of is that Grant and Gill appeared on 20/20 and spewed rationalizations.

If she's ever accepted responsibility for adultery, I would be glad to hear it.

[Cheryl]

Jack, you made a very good point there about the "Righteous Judgement". I forgot about that verse. I'm a fan of Amy's and you're right about her fans making excuses for her. However, did she truly commit adultery? Did her and Vince date prior to her divorce? I'm unaware of these facts. What about Gary? How did you know Scotty Smith discipled her and Gary. I'll change my thinking on this as I gain more insight into the facts. Sandi Patty actually participated in the "act" of adultery and admitted so. Did Amy actually begin a relationship with Vince prior to the divorce? I'm not trying to stir up problems here. Just want the truth.