What's Up with the Emergent Church and Kiwi?

OK, what's up with this.  Andrew Jones of Emergent fame has a blog called "Tall Skinny Kiwi."  And Steve Taylor, also of Emergent fame has a blog called "Emergent Kiwi."  Is kiwi the official fruit of the emergent church or is this just a coincidence?

And by the way, isn't there someone out there who can respond to my "You Might Be a Presbyterian If . . . " with a "You might be emergent if . . ." post?

Smart alec answer - "no David, emergent people don't bother reading the tripe on your blog!"

Comments

[Kent Runge]

Kiwi = New Zealander.

You Might be Emergent If: You get the shakes when you're out of WiFi range.

[Mike]

Now, Dave, I don't think you should suggest that Andrew is a fruit just because he's coming out, er, I mean, emergent.

Kiwi (I think) is what New Zealanders used to call themselves before they became Middle Earthlings.

Personally, I refuse to eat kiwi because NZ is unbelievably beautiful, I'll never get to go there, and I'm jealous.

[Diane R]

Well, one is a true kiwi (i.e. New Zealander) and the other one is a "pretender to the NZ throne."...:)

[David Wayne]

Man - Andrew is taking a beating here. First he's a fruit, now he's a pretender to the throne.

Sigh - and I was trying so hard to be nice to everyone. If anyone reading this knows Andrew or if Andrew reads this, come give the man a defense.

Kent - good one. I get the shakes if I am without an internet connection of any type for more than a day - where does that put me?

[Ajax]

You might be Emergent if you find yourself having a bowel "conversation".

[Ajax]

You might be Emergent if you find yourself having a bowel "conversation".

[DLE]

Just to clarify, "kiwi" is a flightless bird with hair-like feathers and a long, probing bill that lives only in New Zealand. Any reference to "kiwi" is to the bird. The fruit just happened to bear some resemblance to the bird's body, hence the name "kiwifruit."

[David Wayne]

Ajax - that was baaaaad, hilarious, but baaad!

Dan - thanks for clearing things up -- we can now officially announce that Andrew and Steve aren't a couple of fruits - I know they'll be glad to hear that.

[Gaddabout]

If you can't speak or write a sentence without using the words "textual," "narrative," or "dialectic," you might be an Emergent.

[DLE]

David,

I set up the punchline hoping someone would run with it--and you did. Good for you!

[Kent Runge]

I have daily bowel conversations, part of working in the medical field; with bowels we recognize a very different sort of 'emergence'.

Andrew is one of my favourite blog stops, he seems kind, generous and open to listening and learning about new things.

You Might be Emergent If: Your favourite jacket smells permanently of cappucino and has an iPod shaped sag on it's pocket.

You Might be Emergent If: You actually thought about who you voted for in the last election.

[DLE]

You might be Emergent if:

* You can't decide if the sandalwood-scented candles or the jasmine-scented ones are more conducive to worship.

* You refer to Len Sweet, Brian McLaren, Spencer Burke, and Dan Kimball only as Len, Brian, Spencer, and Dan--and everyone you run with knows who you're talking about.

* Growing up, you were "that goth kid" in your Baptist youth group.

* You submitted a paper at your Christian college/seminary that examined all the Christian imagery in "The Matrix."

* You worry that the Wiccan next door is more spiritual than you are.

* You've started at least three flame wars on three different Christian Web sites arguing that absolute truth is unknowable.

* You openly wept during The Lord of the Rings movies.

* You believe that all people go to heaven--except for the leadership of the church you just left.

* You're an "Ephod Wearer" on TheOoze Web site.

* You worry about church ambience.

* You've ever said, "Brian McLaren said it, I believe it, and that settles it."

* All you need to live is a latte, a Wi-Fi computer, and the altar you setup in your loft.

* You still confuse "relevant" with "relative."

* The personality test you just took revealed that you are "High Fantasy."

* You were kicked out as youth pastor of at least two churches.

[Matt]

Bravo, Dan! That last one made me laugh loud enough to make my wife wake from up two rooms over. I'll refrain from adding anecdotes in fear the joke might become a stereotype!

[DLE]

Darn, I forgot one of my best ones from my list:

"You might be Emergent if you like the line drawings in the Good News Bible, but think they would absolutely kick a** if they were anime instead."

[chris corwin]

i see i'm not the first to respond, and hopefully i 'm not the last:

- you've considered asking david crowder to write a new book of psalms

- you go to ikea mostly for the floor pillows and cheap candles

- you sometimes purposfully spill wine on the jones' family memorial carpet

- you both: (a) agree with the creeds (b) don't know what that means

- you have thought about making a pilgrimage to grand rapids

- you like to point out that shekhina is female, but haven't yet bothered to google for what that might mean, yet, though you plan to get to it, soon, like, after you're done looking up "liturgical"

- you don't bother hitting the shift key for "god" or "jesus" or even "i"

- you are pretty sure paul didn't mean quite what you think he means, or at least, you are pretty sure you're not sure you think he might mean something other than you thought he meant, or... wait

- you find yourself complaining that there are only three wifi points in this whole church?!?!!?

[Catez]

Some correction needed here. Kiwi is indeed a native bird of NZ. Flightless with a long beak (good for sticking into controversial topics) and an endangered species. Kiwifruit is not named after the bird. Kiwifruit are in fact Chinese gooseberries (no slight on the Chinese - the Brits came up with that name) and in an innovative marketing move Kiwis (New Zealanders) renamed them Kiwifruit. Kiwifruit taste delicious. Kiwis (the birds) are illegal to eat and probably taste awful. Kiwis (the people) are not all emergent - in fact most of us haven't even heard of the Emergent church - oops sorry - conversation. This is probably becaise, like the Kiwi bird we prefer to come out at night and engage with the strange culture around us. During the day when the emergent conversation is taking place we are asleep on the beach.

[Catez]

With regard to the fact that we are often referred to as Hobbits - we are rebranding and will soon be kown as Narnia. Keep up with the changes you players.

[Catez]

And remember - if Andrew Jones doesn't play rugby he is not a real Kiwi. Rugby is the most superior game of football ever invented by man.

[Paula]

hey, sometimes i don't capitalize because i'm LAZY. or because i'm thinking of e.e. cummings. (however, i always capitalize God and Jesus.) what's in grand rapids that is so doggone great? i'm a michiganian and i guess i must not be emergent, cuz i don't get this one. (scratches head)

[andrew jones]

You might be Emergent if . . . you apologize for your avatar/habbo not turning up to CyberChurch on Sunday.

regarding the Kiwi issue - both STeve and I are New Zealanders as are many in the emerging church scene, both in NZ and outside. i have cleared things up on my blog with a post called Getting Your Kiwi's Straight (click on my name)

(hey - what about allowing some html in your comments so the Emergents can speak their native language?)

There you go . . . You might be Emergent if you think your name starts with A HREF

Now thats funny! Right There. Ah dont care who ya are!!! Thats Funny!

For the record, i did play rugby when i grew up in New Zealand, and I even ate fish'n'chips out of a paper bag in the back of a Ford Zephar . . . so shuttup you Kiwis. I know my accent is screwed up after traveling for 20 years, but I assure you my sarcastic kiwi humor is still intact. And my favourte lolly is pinapple lumps.

love this post, and i will give careful and serious consideration to "you might be emergent if . . ."

[andrew jones]

i think i lost my comment so i will write a shorter one

you might be emerging if . ..

- you apologize for your avatar or habbo character not turning up to Cyber Church on Sunday.
- you know the best way to scrape candle wax off carpet
- you have considered putting dreads in your gotee
- you have more metal in your face than on your hands
- you email your wife even though she is in the next room
- you write so much in hypertext that you think your name starts with "a href"

great post and comments. i just wrote a thing on kiwis on my blog to clear up the confusion - both Steve and myself are from New Zealand - Steve (Emergent Kiwi) still lives there whereas i left at 17 and have been travelling ever since as a missionary.

[andrew]

ahhhhhhhh . . . found my old comment - it was at the top of the pile rather than the bottom

now i have repeated myself and made an absolute Dagg (ancient KIWI language) of myself or a complete (Wally - thats Aussie) of myself.

"Even a fool is considered wise, until he opens his mouth" (Proverbs)

and now i have left 3 comments in succession like a babbling fool.

And on that note, I hide my face in my hands and bow out. . . .

[Duncan Macleod]

Everything Andrew says re kiwis is true.

I think one of the reasons kiwis are natural emergents is that they are unspoilt by over resourcing. It's the Do It Yourself, Adapt and Make Do approach that is used in NZ farms. Everything can be fixed with a bit of number eight wire.

Kiwis also know how do defy definitions and peramaters. NZ kicked the USA navy out because of their refusal to confirm or deny the presence of nuclear warheads, leading to being post-ANZUS treaty. It's that attitude that makes it natural to be post-label.

Duncan (PostKiwi in Australia)

[Catez]

Ok Andrew - you are a real Kiwi. (Not sure I like the "shut-up" part - shouldn't hat be "get in behind"? - note: a sheep farming expression when herding).
Duncan - oh woe - Kiwis yes, but emergent? Some are - althought the conservationists are having a hard time finding them... They keep getting knocked off.
Anyway - fun "meeting" you two jokers (note for non-Hobbitts - jokers doesn't mean people who joke in NZ, although it can).
Gotta go - my freelance beautician supplies have just arrived.
Lynn of Tawa

[Katy Raymond]

You might be emergent if, while you've managed to miss every major emergent gathering thus far, you still always find yourself "unpacking."