John MacArthur, Rick Warren, The Purpose Driven Life and CNN

In the wake of Ashley Smith's encounter with Atlanta courthouse murderer Brian Nichols, Rick Warren's book The Purpose Driven Life has gotten a renewed round of publicity.  As she was held hostage by Nichols, Smith read to him from the bible and The Purpose Driven Life.  She acted heroically in this situation and has rightly received lots of praise. Because she read to Nichols from PDL the book is being credited with playing a part in the ending of this hostage drama and on March 16, Paula Zahn, sitting in for Aaron Brown, did a feature on the book.

CNN contacted Tim Challies in regard to this.  Tim let it be known that he is a critic of the book and they chose not to interview him on air, apparently settling for John MacArthur instead.  MacArthur voiced some criticisms of the book which were pooh-poohed by CNN as the ramblings of a jealous skeptic who believes in a "stern God."

It will probably come as a total shock to you when I say that CNN didn't represent MacArthur fairly, but yes, believe it or not, they didn't.  So, Grace to You has clarified MacArthur's comments on their website, where they say, among other things:

John's critical comments about the book were brief but substantive. He highlighted some significant points where the thrust of the book is at odds with the message of Scripture. He pointed out, for example, that the true gospel is a call to self-denial, not self-fulfillment. The gospel is a message about redemption, not about life's purpose. The gospel according to Scripture deals with God's law, His grace, human depravity, redemption from sin, justification, sanctification, holiness, the nature of saving faith, and the lordship of Christ. And the true gospel's most essential features are the cross of Christ and the truth of the resurrection. None of those subjects is dealt with adequately or biblically in The Purpose-Driven Life.

Notice the rhetorical sleight of hand here on the part of CNN - instead of dealing with what MacArthur's criticisms, CNN shifted into an ad hominem attack on his character.  I am reminded of the words of Elbert Hubbard who said:

"If you can't answer a man's argument, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names."

You will notice that MacArthur did not attack Warren's character, he attacked a few specific items that he was concerned about in the book.  Rather than asking "is MacArthur jealous of Warren's success?" we need to ask whether or not PDL truly accurately reflects the bible's teaching on self-denial.  We need to ask whether it accurately reflects the gospel's emphases on law, grace, depravity, sin, justification, sanctification, holiness, faith and Lordship?  We need to know if PDL communicates the essential features of the gospel like the cross of Christ and the resurrection.

At the moment, PDL is being judged solely on the basis of it's popularity.  As far as I have seen, criticisms of the book and the movement have been ruled out of order because of it's popularity.  So many people have been so blessed by the book that it must be from God.

Yet, as Anatole French said ""If a million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."  The question to ask is not "is it popular?" but "is it biblically true?"

And I am not arguing that it is all bad.  The book has many good features for which it can rightly be praised.  But PDL has gone from being a book to being a movement.  If it were just a book, we could all sit around and discuss it's pros and cons, we could take the good, throw out the bad and use the book wisely.

But since PDL has become a movement you are either for it or against it.  You're in or you're out. If you are against it then you have missed the spiritual wave and are floundering in the ocean.

In and of itself the fact that CNN gives the book a positive spin doesn't damn the book.  But it is obvious that the gospel of PDL is more palatable to CNN than say, MacArthur's Gospel According to Jesus.   Of course that's because PDL is more newsworthy - I don't know of any situation where Gospel According to Jesus has played a role in the resolution of a hostage crisis. 

At the same time, Ashley read from the bible during the hostage crisis and yet I haven't heard anyone crediting the bible with playing a role in resolving the crisis.  It seems that the gospel according to PDL is more newsworthy than the gospel according to the Bible.

Hat Tip - Personal Trainer

Comments

[The Bloke...in the Outer...]

I think thus far, critics have all missed the point about the Ashley Smith story in regards to PDL. I have heard this "no one has mentioned which Bible passage Ashley Smith read from" line so many times. It is not really important which passage of Bible she read from. The important thing is that Ashley is a Christian and she read from the Bible. That story should help us in our conversations with friends and also we ought to pray that this story will sway some on-the-fence seeker to go reach for that Gideon Bible in the bottom drawer or on the shelf.

It doesn't matter if the MSM (strange that I am now using this acronym, not so long ago, I thought it was another product from Microsoft) spinning it their way. The important thing is that they are spinning it. More important is that it is taking away air time from other pseudo-spiritual work or movement. Hopefully, this will allow us to talk about the PDL at work and with our neighbors and perhaps help them to look at their own mortality, their life's purpose, and perhaps consider their Creator's claims on their lives. Let's look at it as opportunities and doors opening for us to do our work!

On another note, why do Christians have to take sides in this matter? Why must it be for-PDL or against-PDL. I have posted a couple of posts recently against the criticisms of PDL and Rick Warren's Ladies Home Journal columns, but I am not for-PDL either (although just reading my posts, people may not know that). In fact, I haven't even read the whole book. Perhaps people might say that because of that I cannot really weigh into the debate, however, I believe we need not see this as a positive spin on PDL alone, and try to see that PDL for better or for worse is a pro-gospel message.

However inadequate it is in telling the whole story, it is still telling a story that is pointing people in the general direction of the gospel. We need to understand that the gospel message cannot be fully told by any single work. Let us have the view that the work of the gospel is done more when we exhibit Christ's love to one another than in any other way (see John 13: 34, 35).

Let's try to see that the PDL and any other tract, booklet, or book as only pre-evangelistic tools. Some of these tools tell a fuller story than others, but each one of them are a link in the chain that lead someone along the journey to faith. At the end of the day, God is going to use people more than anything, and He is going to use His people and through relationships to bring those seeking to Himself.

On whichever side of the "God draws"/"human receives" debate, it is without a doubt that He has commanded us to do the work of the gospel which is to go, to love, to preach. All these other stuff are just tools/strategies, and rather than bemoan at the undue popularity/watered-down message/etc, etc, why don't we just make the most of the positive publicity and do the work that our Lord commanded us?

Even the apostle Paul couldn't win everyone to God. Only a few believed him but many contended and disputed with him. However, few Christians did that, perhaps none (see Acts 17: 16-34).

So, let's not do that ourselves.

[Joel Thomas]

Of course people should be free to criticize PDL. Unfortunately, some of the criticism has been harshly personal toward Rick Warren.

I can understand that hyper-Calvinists might not like the book, because Rick Warren's book reflects the tension of Calvinist and Arminian thought within the Southern Baptist Convention. I would place Warren closer to the Calvinist viewpoint, but his book clearly reflects some Arminian free-will thinking as well.

[Dan]

The church where I belong (CBF Baptist) decided not to start one of Warren's 40 day deals. But, we have made new committments to service, in part because several of the churches in the suburbs have come forward to make volunteer committments to work with downtown churches on our many urban needs. Some of these churches have been through the PDL program, and the members I have talked to usually put numbers growth at the end of the list of benefits they have seen. There is more Bible study, more service committment, and, new members aside, more old members showing up for what htey say are better worship services. We are partnering with a suburban church to plant our areas first Baptist Hispanic church. It is hard for me to see that Warren has been anything but a positive force for good. This reminds me about the old debates about Billy Graham crusades. Yes, he was light on theology to some people's taste, but local churches had every opportunity to connect with the crusades and teach new believers how to follow Jesus.

[King of Fools]

I read this story about a week ago and was troubled by McArthur's course of action. He is free to disagree with Warren, but I think taking this disagreement into a public secular forum via a secular news agency was a very bad call. I'm not surprised that things did not go as he had planned.

I truly think this is exactly the type of situation that I Corinthians 6 was written to address. Granted, the attack was not in a court of law, but it was in the court of public opinion.

I had actually worked through a pretty substantive rebuke of McArthur in my head to post on my blog...and then decided that my own action would not be that much different than that I was condemning.

[dopderbeck]

I saw an interview with Warren this morning on one of the early shows. It was a fantastic interview. Warren said something about how he believed PDL was resonating with people because it's contrary to the false messages we receive from our self-centered, hedonistic society. Life, Warren said, isn't about ourselves, it's about service to others. If MacArthur thinks PDL is all about "self-fullfillment," he's just wrong; the first line of the book, for Pete's sake, is "it's not about you"!

The hideous anti-Warrenism in some so-called "Christian" circles and from some self-appointed know-it-alls (and I don't mean you, David, I've always appreciated your Irenic spirit), is a disgusting stain on us as a people who are supposed to be concerned about our love for each other and our concern for the lost. God clearly miraculously intervened in this situation to end a murderous rampage, unbelievers are wondering if there really might be something to this Christianity stuff after all, and the Calvinists' response is to fret about which translation of the Bible Warren quotes from and whether he's clear about doctrinal distinctions most people don't even know exist. Sounds alot like Jesus and the Pharisees to me.

And please, don't tell me I'm "either for it or against it." Horse hockey. I'm a more complex and educated person than that and I'm perfectly capable excercising some discernment, not to mention that the Holy Spirit is perfectly capable of guiding me and my local church community about whether, how, and to what extent to utilize PDL.

[Mike O]

In my Bible, God says that His word has power. I have no such assurance for PDL, so I think I'll give the credit to her reading the Bible and let the MSM give the credit elswhere. Then again, what would you expect.

[dopderbeck]

Mike O -- In my Bible, God also says that He empowers the Church and individual believers through the Holy Spirit. I'll give the credit to Him and thank Him for using Ashley Smith and Rick Warren in this circumstance.

[The Bloke...in the Outer...]

I will say it one more time as short and sweet as possible even if no one else seem to be listening. It really doesn't matter who gets the credit. Let's see this as an opportunity to use the current public interest in the message contained in the PDL (however veiled/corrupted/distorted we think it is) as an opportunity for us to do what God commanded us to do!

[Charlie]

PDL (as you affectionately nickname it)is an American-specific theology, that is both antithetical and heretical to Biblical principles. It idolizes wealth, misrepresents the purpose of the church, and despite the first line of the book, IS all about the individual. God dancing at your birth? Get over yourself.

[Jeremy Pierce]

It seems to me that MacArthur's argument is a false distinction. Why assume that self-fulfillment doesn't come through self-denial, especially when Jesus said that it does come that way?

[James Sundquist]

We are all grateful that Ashley Smith for her bravery in standing up for the Gospel and her calm under fire and that the Lord saved her out of that trial. But before people get too euphoric over Purpose Driven Life, I invite you to consider the following accounts in which rather than being saved, Christians were purpose-ddriven out of their churches for opposing Rick Warren's teachings.

SPIRITUAL EUTHANASIA
A PARABLE OF THE PURPOSE DRIVEN CHURCH
PURPOSE DRIVEN CHRISTIANITY....A WAY THAT SEEMS RIGHT UNTO MAN, OR
WHO'S END IS DESTRUCTION?

"First they came for “resisters” and “pillars” of Brunswick Reformed Church, Brunswick, Ohio
because they opposed Purpose Driven Life and Church, but I didn't speak up because I was not a
member of Reformed Church of American (RCA) denomination.1
Then they came after a lady who was an elder lady in the faith who had been with the First
Baptist Church of Dallas, Texas since 1956 by shouting her down with spiritual euthanasia and
aggressive mean-spirited behavior, and the intimidation of seven attorneys, because she opposed
them turning their landmark Criswell Center into a Purpose Driven entertainment center. But I
did not speak up because I was not a widow.2
Then they held a trial for two families at Valley Baptist Church in Lakeland, Minnesota, but I
didn't speak up because I was not a member of the General Baptist Convention.i
Then they came after 165 members of Gardendale Baptist Church, Corpus Christi, Texas and ran
them out of the church, but I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Southern Baptist. 3
Then a brother did finally speak up and tried to warn Eugene Christian Fellowship because they
had gone Purpose Driven, but they threatened legal action and told him to stop spamming them.
But I did not speak up for fear of being accused of spamming or being sued by a church.4
Then a news reporter for a large Christian radio network sounded the alarm on His Holy Hill of
this clear and present danger. They ran the story, but received more gnashing of teeth from
callers then they had ever had, so they censored this story from their Agape Press print media
news service.5
Then still another brother on another Christian radio ministry broadcast testimonies of Christians
thrown out of their churches across the country, but the network threatened to remove his show
from the air, if another broadcast was ever made that said anything bad about Rick Warren. But
I did not speak up because I had friends and family who were either employed by an organization
that promoted Purpose Driven Church, or were in Purpose Driven Church, and I did not want to
lose those relationships.6
Then they came after a large group of members at New Hope Church in Bend, Oregon. But I didn't speak up because I wasn't a member of The Evangelical Church denomination or the
National Association of Evangelicals.7
Then they came after a carpenter and his wife at Calvary Community Church in Phoenix, Arizona
with the police and a sheriff and escorted him out of the church and off of the grounds for trying
to expose the deeds of darkness and the teachings of Rick Warren, telling him that if he returned,
he would be arrested. But I didn't speak up because I wasn't a member of the Calvary Chapel
denomination.8
Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me, because every
church in the nation had become Purpose Driven and part of his Global PEACE Plan."
1. Pastor Dave Hawk, Brunswick Reformed Church, Brunswick, Ohio website: www.b-r-c.org. Incidents occurred
with Susan Anderson April-June 2001. Testimony reconfirmed by email from Susan Anderson 3/11/2005.2.
2. Confirmed by the testimony of Betty Erwin on Southwest Radio Church archived broadcast: March 1, 2005, see and
hear at: http://www.swrc.com/broadcasts/2005/march.htm and by 11/07, 11/11, 11/24, 2004 and 1/6 2005 letters by
Betty Erwin to Mr. & Mrs. Brunson and another former pastor at Dallas First Baptist Church, and telephone
interview March 2005.
9. Pastor Rev. Timothy S. Magnuson, Valley Baptist Church in Lakeland, Minnesota. Tel 651-436-5278.
Verified by letters from church and the families of Keith Thompson and Charles Thompson.
Centered around October 22, 2002
4. Pastor Micah Davison, Gardendale Baptist Church, Corpus Christi, Texas. Gardendale Baptist Church
5633 S Staples St., Corpus Christi, TX 78411-4646 Phone: (361) 991-0285.
Website:http://www.gardendale.org/.
165 members ousted on July 21, 2004:
Source: http://www.sbcbaptistpress.org/bpnews.asp?ID=18997, and Corpus Christi Times: Margaret Neu
Information Services Editor, Corpus Christi Caller-Times, P. O. Box 9136, Corpus Christi, TX 78469
[email protected] 361-886-4312
Testimonies of ousted members Piedad Ymbert, B.J. Moore, Grady Jackson, available on September 2004 archived
realaudio files on Southwest Radio Church at swrc.com, archived, September 2004 at:
http://www.swrc.com/broadcasts/2003/september.htm, and letters, Rick Hudson emails and telephone interviews,
September/October 2004.
Sundquist, James. Who's Dri’ing the Purpose Driven Church? Bible Belt Publishing, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.
2004. pp. 193-194. Website: http://www.swrc.com and http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/False-Teachers.html
5. Pastor Gary Clark, Eugene Christian Fellowship, 89780 N. Game Farm Rd., Eugene, OR 97408
541-344-3380. Website: http://www.ecf.org/Content/ContentCT.asp?P=22
Confirmed in letters from and correspondence with Eugene Christian Fellowship leaders: Tim Reich, Executive
Pastor Jonathan Hatmaker, Discovery 301 Class (SHAPE), Mark Harpham, November 11-19, 2004
6. American Family Radio News, 107 Parkgate Dr. Tupelo, MS 38801. (662) 844-8888 Radio news segment ran
February 15, 2005.www.afr.net
7. Source: Regarding Watchman on the Wall radio show....Prophetic Observer, February and March Issues, Southwest
Radio Church. Southwest Radio Church, PO Box 100, Bethany, OK 73008
WATS Line: 800-652-1144, Local Phone: 405-789-1222, FAX: 405-787-2589, Email: [email protected]
8. Sr. Pastor Randy Myers, New Hope Church, 20080 Pinebrook Blvd., Bend, Oregon 97702. Tel (541)389-3436
20080. Website: http://www.newhopeonline.net Correspondence with Pastors Josh Conn (2/03/2005-2/23/2005

and William Vermillion, The Evangelical Church denomination, an NAE affiliate: 2/26/2005-3/12/2005
9. Pa Mark Martin, Calvary Community Church, 12612 N. Black Canyon Hwy.,Phoenix, Arizona 85029. Tel.
Phone: (602) 973-4768. Toll Free: (888) 970-3030. Email Address: [email protected]. Website:
http://www.netministries.org/see/churches.exe/ch19442
9. Testimony of Bear Frankson based on events since July 2004. Taped interview: 2/18/2005.
Compiled and Adapted by James Sundquist
Based on Rev. Martin Neimoeller's Poe’ below written in 1945
©2005 Rock Salt Publishing
Used by Permission
________________________
"In Germany, the Nazis first came for the Communists, and I didn't
speak up because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I
wasn't a Jew.
Then they came for the trade unionists, but I didn't speak up
because I wasn't a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Catholics, but I didn't speak up because I
was a Protestant.
Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to
speak for me."
(Rev. Martin Neimoeller, German Lutheran Pastor. Rev.
Neimoeller was arrested by the Gestapo for opposing Hitler and
was sent to Dachau in 1938. He was freed by Allied forces in
1945.)

[Rick McCarthy]

Why doesn't anyone ask why John MacArthur has not followed the Biblical model for confronting a professed believer who is off track as he feels Rick Warren's teaching is- ie., one-on-one, within the church, not on national TV, outside the church-?

[kevin]

My wife bought Thee Purpose Driven Life book at her church. After flipping through it and realizing that it was nothing more than "God Has A Plan" jibberish, I bit my tongue while she waded through the first few chapters. Once she started parroting the book's trite slagans, ie, "You are not an accident", etc. I had to speak up. I first asked her if God had such a great plan for everybody, what was he thinking while they died in the Nazi gas chambers, or got their hands hacked off in Rawanda. For this I was rewarded with a copy of this book flung at my groin by my newly minted Jesus freak of a wife -- I guess that was God's will. Her ranting continued in front of our distraught 3-yr old daughter, and I am supposed to accept this as "God's will". Thanks, Mr. Warren, for helping my wife abandon all reason and her family as she embraces your dime-store irrationality and blind-faith garbage of a book.

[Watchman's Helper]

Regarding Kevin's comment back in April (I just now saw his post):

Understand that Matthew 18 does not apply to Rick Warren in light of his critics. Rick Warren has publicly offended MANY by writing his book of perversions. He has openly perverted the gospel of Christ, not just changing it, but seriously watering it down and has added his own teachings that are opposite of scripture (in many cases changes and twists scripture, which the Bible warns not to do), and this has caused a public and open offense for anyone and everyone who has picked up his books (both PDL and PDC) and read for themselves the outright changes and lies he has written therein. In Matthew 18 Jesus is referring to something done to a brother one on one, to his face, or behind his back. It is not a guideline for someone who claims to be a brother who goes forth and offends many in the congregation at one time through the publication and publicity of a "best-selling" book or fad of the moment. John MacAurthur, as well as a large host of others, have been completely right, and backed by scriptural guidelines, by publicly addressing the heresy that has come forth from Rick Warren's books and his Saddleback teachings. The many scripture verses that tell Christians how to handle those who bring false teachings is the proper scripture to follow in dealing with people like Rick Warren, Robert Schuller, Joel Olstein, etc. who water down the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ for the sake of their own persona, image, popularity, whatever you want to call it. Rick Warren did not privately publish his book, he publicly and openly published it for the entire world to be able to purchase a copy. Matthew 18 does not apply to his public teachings, but the many scriptures that teach how to deal with false teachers and those who change or bring another gospel (Gal. 1:8,9), and soforth. One excellent and straight to the point scriptural command about how we are to openly deal with false teachers is found in 2 John 7-11. There is God's command on how to deal with Rick Warren and all the others who do the same things he has done.

[Watchman's Helper]

Sorry, I think my post was meant for Ricky McCarthy. I thought the poster's name went on top of their post, not the bottom.

[Karen graves]

Hi, I just wanted to say that I have been saved for about 25 years. Ten of those were spent in the health and wealth gospel. One day while reading scripture, The one about "even the elect possibly being deceived", I fell on my face before the Lord and asked Him to keep me from being deceived." As I shared this with my friends, they said, "Oh, God won't let you be deceived!" But the truth is "OH, yes, he will!" "My people perish for lack of knowledge." Today too many people are going to church and listening but not being "like the Beareans,who searched the scriptures daily" to see if the word agreed with what was being being preached. I am alarmed, that Rick Warren, a so called discerning Christian Leader, would even remotely refer to a project of his as a "global Peace Plan" in a day and age like the one we live in. Who in their right mind, knowing the scriptures, would choose to term their plan a "global Peace Plan", when those who have ears to hear have read and heard the warnings in the scripture that a man will appear on the forefront with a global peace plan. We have been warned to look for such a man. We have been warned that when they exclaim "Peace and Safty, "Peace and Saftey" then suddenly distruction will come." Why would someone who loved us "inadvertantly" and "ignorantly" and "harmlessly" confuse the Body of Christ by coming up with such a plan? If Rick Warren was a baby christain, (like he claims his friend Ken Blanchard is,,so we need to overlook Mr. Blanchard's involvement in the New Age, although he has not publically repented of his involvement), then maybe they could ask us to excuse Rick for his lack of wisdom. But Rick Warren is not a new christian and is suppose to be a Leader and "in the know." It is preposterous that he would call his plan a "global Peace Plan" and want all of us to join in with his plan and get on his band wagon! We need to sit back and "put on our thinking caps," as our teachers used to tell us, before we act on this one! Any global Peace Plan should be extremely suspect to a discerning christian-it just might be subtitled, "Beelzabub's global Peace Plan." The bottom line is "Something is fishy in Denmark, America, and around the world, wherever Warren's peace plan travels." We need to open our eyes. Who would have thought that A "global Peace Plan" would come out of the heart of a "Christian!" The potential for deception is unbelievable yet it has become apparent. I have e-mailed Rick Warren twice and asked him to please explain to me why he is calling his plan a "global Peace plan?' I receive his e-mails called "The Pastors' Tool Box," since we, a small church facilitated "A Purpose Driven Life." He has not responded. I am very alarmed at what may be transpiring so subtely right before our very eyes. It is cetainly not to accuse Warren of being the anti-christ, but world leaders are going to play right into the hands of the anti-christ. A final statement made by Rick Warren, talking about his global Peace Plan. "Who's the man of peace in any village-or it might be a woman of peace-who has the most respect, they're open and they're influential? They don't have to be a Christian. In fact they could be a Muslim, but they're open and they
are influential and you work with them to attack the five giants. And that's going to bring the second reformation." What he is proposing is that Christians work peacefully with Muslims to establish his "global peace plan," (the five giants are the five major goals of his "peace plan.") and that is going to bring the second reformation?! Did you get that? reformation of what? The Church? With the help of Muslims? We are commissioned to spread the gospel to Muslims -not to work with them to establish world peace and bring in a reformation. Warren has also been invited to share his church growth principles and other priciples with a Jewish Confrence of Jewish leaders, looking to increase attendance and participation during their worship services. That would be like a couple of Pharasses coming to Jesus, after they saw him feed the 5000, and saying to Him "Man how did you do that? How did you get so many people to come and keep them for so long? Will you come share your methods with us?" According to Warren's philosophy, Jesus would say "Sure, I'll be glad to help you make Jews enjoy their faith and help them be more involved in their faith. When do you want me to come?" I don't think so! He came to deliver them from Hell. He came to show them that He was the only way. He came to strike at the root of the desception in their faith not to promote more Jews becoming Jews. What is going on is Spooky, really spooky! We need to be on the Alert! Karen

[Karen graves]

Hi, I just wanted to say that I have been saved for about 25 years. Ten of those were spent in the health and wealth gospel. One day while reading scripture, The one about "even the elect possibly being deceived", I fell on my face before the Lord and asked Him to keep me from being deceived." As I shared this with my friends, they said, "Oh, God won't let you be deceived!" But the truth is "OH, yes, he will!" "My people perish for lack of knowledge." Today too many people are going to church and listening but not being "like the Beareans,who searched the scriptures daily" to see if the word agreed with what was being being preached. I am alarmed, that Rick Warren, a so called discerning Christian Leader, would even remotely refer to a project of his as a "global Peace Plan" in a day and age like the one we live in. Who in their right mind, knowing the scriptures, would choose to term their plan a "global Peace Plan", when those who have ears to hear have read and heard the warnings in the scripture that a man will appear on the forefront with a global peace plan. We have been warned to look for such a man. We have been warned that when they exclaim "Peace and Safty, "Peace and Saftey" then suddenly distruction will come." Why would someone who loved us "inadvertantly" and "ignorantly" and "harmlessly" confuse the Body of Christ by coming up with such a plan? If Rick Warren was a baby christain, (like he claims his friend Ken Blanchard is,,so we need to overlook Mr. Blanchard's involvement in the New Age, although he has not publically repented of his involvement), then maybe they could ask us to excuse Rick for his lack of wisdom. But Rick Warren is not a new christian and is suppose to be a Leader and "in the know." It is preposterous that he would call his plan a "global Peace Plan" and want all of us to join in with his plan and get on his band wagon! We need to sit back and "put on our thinking caps," as our teachers used to tell us, before we act on this one! Any global Peace Plan should be extremely suspect to a discerning christian-it just might be subtitled, "Beelzabub's global Peace Plan." The bottom line is "Something is fishy in Denmark, America, and around the world, wherever Warren's peace plan travels." We need to open our eyes. Who would have thought that A "global Peace Plan" would come out of the heart of a "Christian!" The potential for deception is unbelievable yet it has become apparent. I have e-mailed Rick Warren twice and asked him to please explain to me why he is calling his plan a "global Peace plan?' I receive his e-mails called "The Pastors' Tool Box," since we, a small church facilitated "A Purpose Driven Life." He has not responded. I am very alarmed at what may be transpiring so subtely right before our very eyes. It is cetainly not to accuse Warren of being the anti-christ, but world leaders are going to play right into the hands of the anti-christ. A final statement made by Rick Warren, talking about his global Peace Plan. "Who's the man of peace in any village-or it might be a woman of peace-who has the most respect, they're open and they're influential? They don't have to be a Christian. In fact they could be a Muslim, but they're open and they
are influential and you work with them to attack the five giants. And that's going to bring the second reformation." What he is proposing is that Christians work peacefully with Muslims to establish his "global peace plan," (the five giants are the five major goals of his "peace plan.") and that is going to bring the second reformation?! Did you get that? reformation of what? The Church? With the help of Muslims? We are commissioned to spread the gospel to Muslims -not to work with them to establish world peace and bring in a reformation. Warren has also been invited to share his church growth principles and other priciples with a Jewish Confrence of Jewish leaders, looking to increase attendance and participation during their worship services. That would be like a couple of Pharasses coming to Jesus, after they saw him feed the 5000, and saying to Him "Man how did you do that? How did you get so many people to come and keep them for so long? Will you come share your methods with us?" According to Warren's philosophy, Jesus would say "Sure, I'll be glad to help you make Jews enjoy their faith and help them be more involved in their faith. When do you want me to come?" I don't think so! He came to deliver them from Hell. He came to show them that He was the only way. He came to strike at the root of the desception in their faith not to promote more Jews becoming Jews. What is going on is Spooky, really spooky! We need to be on the Alert! Karen

[Joanne Arseneau]

Well now that most of this Ashley Smith story has settled some strange truths that she confessed publicly on Oprah have come out, she apparently gave this guy drugs, what on earth!!!! I believe it was crystal meth. Great she read PDL book, she read the bible, great! But gave him drugs! My goodness, I feel that she has blown her whole christian testimony as far as any part she had to play in this mans life, I cannot stand that book PDL in the first place, yeah its got some inspirational stuff in it, but come on the only corn flakes I like are the ones I eat!!! Joanne

[Pastor Don Killey]

I praise the Lord for men like MacAurthur that stand on God's word keep keeping on for Him

[nino]

this is my response to the critical article of clay miller to/against the faithful men of God, including rick warren. you may find the article at: http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/SC03-1029.htm

please never criticize other evangelical churches who are doing their best to reach the world for Christ. we are all in the same team. while you were working on that article, there are millions of people who need the gospel. it would be best to devote your time to them than attacking fellow servants/believers & exalt your church. remember the name of your church is GRACE, and we are all saved through the grace of God.

many people love doctrine but failed to win souls for Christ. when Jesus came he did not teach theological stuff only, if that is the case, only the pharisees would have been saved. he ministers to the felt needs of the people which were why he was effective in winning them for God.

christians in europe are declining, because one of the reasons is they focused more on theology & other stuff. what happened? we have only few faithful christians in numbers. they failed to evangelize the new generation. they are more concern on theology rather than love & sensitivity for the people. it seems that they are saying that this is the right theology if you don't accept this theology you are damn to hell. i guess they have failed to contemporize the gospel. i am pretty much sure that we can contemporised the gospel without altering its message.

i am an asian. if i am an unbeliever i do not want doctrines which you exalt too much. my focus is more on my felt needs and there is no way you can reach me if you talk about; martin luther, john calvin, TULIP, or the hymnals that the old missionaries imparted to us which we cannot understand nor even perhaps the young americans (old english). what i need is the simple presentation of the gospel & what Christ can do to my present dying situation. (that is
why "seeker sensitive service" approach to the pagans is indeed, a blessing from God.)

after that, i am open now to the theological doctrines that you would like to present, only after you have won me in the first place & not the other way around.

i know several heretical groups in my country (not evangelical but arius) who focus more on doctrines: debates on t.v., discussions, indoctrination, attack catholics, protestant & evangelical but they are all weak. most of their followers are ethnocentric & there is no change in the lives of their followers.

neverhteless, there are also conservative christians (not the heretical group) just like them in their approaches (discussions, indoctrination, debates & attacking other groups). they are centered more on doctrine & seemed liked the modern pharisees. they know the bible, doctrines but there is no life transformation in the lives of their followers and they even think that they are better than the other evangelical christians.

we can reach the world for Christ if we will be united and not destroying each other's reputation. i guess it would be better for you to attack the radical islam who are suiciding for their faith & killed innocents than the great people of God whom He is using.

Augustine once mentioned: in necessariis unitas, in non-necessariis (or, dubiis) libertas, in utrisque (or, omnibus) caritas.¡¨ In essentials unity, in nonessentials diversity, in all things love.

[SANDRA FORD]

THE DISPUTE FROM THE "OLD GUARD"(MACARTHUR} AGAINST THE "NEW VOICE IN THE WILDERNESS" (WARREN) SOUNDS SO VERY FAMILIAR, SIMILAR TO A TERM CALLED EGOTISM. WHAT DOES MACARTHUR CALL HIS MASTERS PROGRAM, WHICH BY THE WAY HE HAS EXPANDED TO THE SOUTHEAST, BUT THE SPREADING OF MACARTHURS GOSPEL.?

[Dalia]

One of my comments re: the book........ "The Purpose Driven Life" the title alone was a roadblock for me / why? / because we are Sheep and I know for a fact that Sheep are not to be "DRIVEN" it is absolutely impossible to drive a sheep..../ sheep are precious and must be lead / the sheep will follow a true shepherd but not a herdsman or a hirling who drives.
We live in a religious culture today where the sheep are........ coerced, manipulated, scattered, browbeat, shoved, pushed etc....and now to be driven.

d.b. / SC

[Randy Rusconi]

Didn't the Apostle Paul name names and publicly rebuke people (including the Apostle Peter) when they were doing or espousing some doctrine or activity that was contrary to the word of God? I think in an age of non-sacrificial Christianity, it is necessary to
condemn anything that waters down the message of salvation and do what Jude tells us "to contend earnestly for the faith once for all delivered to the Saints"